I have noticed Trump referenced a couple times now and I would just like to point out that none of these protesters if that’s what we are going to call them voted for him. What we are seeing is a huge democrat voter base.
I am sitting with my partner of 13 years and she is remembering the arrival of her paternal grandmother to Ellis Island exactly 100 years ago today. She and her sister joined their Rabbi father just before the closing of the US borders to most immigration. It is interesting to look at our histories to see what choices/happenstance that led us to live under the same roof. Your description of Russian pogroms covers part of her story, while mine was partially captured by JD Vance's ill conceived Hillbilly Elegy. It is my contention that equal opportunity to an excellent education levels most of the playing fields.
While I appreciate the grand history and it certainly helps understand why things are said and done by each side, I would really like the media/historians to look at some of the other potential issues that drove some of the barbarity that bubbles up through history. It's pretty clear to me that some of the worldwide violence that began to rise after WWII can be tied to mass lead poisoning of the populace due to expansive use of leaded gasoline. There are other agents that are purposefully used to drive hatred and separate man from his humanity and seemingly one of these agents are man made drugs derived from ephedrine. Reportedly Hamas was using a similar drug in their training methods just like the Nazis and the Japanese. In addition, Meth in this country leads some people to have absolutely zero humanity for other humans. When the media equates Hamas trained fighters to justify killing Palestinians that live in fear of what I suspect are violent religious junkies it reminds me of the stupid decisions made by the US in the aftermath of 911.
History matters, especially the history of the last 120 years, but that history has to be told that includes all the factors that may lead to violent outcomes. I am not sure we are there yet, but your 3 causes are enlightening.
I could wax on about Darrell Cooper, Mike Brown and George Floyd as these figures tell a story but not the one that gets the story "more correct" Thanks again.
You've highlighted some interesting angles, especially related to the lead poisoning angle (which correct me if I'm wrong has been correlated with the serial killer spread starting in the 1950s or so?) and the use of drugs, as the Nazis and Japanese did. I've really been meaning to read Blitzed for a long time, so maybe I'll get around to that soon, since it deals directly with the Nazis' use of meth.
Also on a side note, I really appreciate the personal angle you've taken because it's illuminating and important; it's funny too because in referencing Vance and Hillbilly Elegy, it makes me appreciate that one side of my family, while as far as I know was never as destitute as Vance's, is from rural Ohio and has always loomed in my imagination in a similar way as the Jewish-German side has. It's something that Americans like you and I (and millions of others) can and should appreciate as unique and even strange.
And finally, I find myself cringing as I think about how much blood will have been spilled before people realize that their cheerleading and apologia is soaked in it. I have a more pro-Israel bias than, say, Darryl does, but I also don't have any way to explain away the deaths of so many thousands of civilians. There is no excuse. But I'm also incapable of supporting the idea of Israel laying down its arms, especially now that their worst fears have been realized. So I see this as, essentially, WWII in micro: total war, started by someone who had no hope of winning, and whose losses will be more catastrophic than they already are. No matter what anyone says, Hamas brought this on themselves and, more importantly, the innocent children they crouch behind, with the shocking violence they committed.
With that said, it's impossible not to appreciate the deeply-felt history that lies behind all of this. I don't think we can underestimate it, even though the living memory of 1881-1948 has long passed us by. Anything that makes someone stop in their tracks and say, "Wait a second..." is the best we can hope for. I hope I helped provide that for at least one person.
Thanks for the considerate response. My partner and I spent the evening wondering what it was like for her grandmother to arrive in America, the story of meeting her partner, moving to the Jersey burbs, having two sons and then going on to teach after earning an advanced degree. One of the sons became a Judge and he and his wife are weirdly buried at Arlington National Cemetery, while my partner's father became a respected radiologist. Opportunity meets education is the story of those that successfully escape oppression. Same story with those that fled farms and fallow fields for the industrial cities of Ohio, where industrialists valued hard work, but also understood the long term value of educating the workforce.
None more so than the person that placed tetra-ethyl lead in gasoline, Charles F. Kettering. I went to K-12 in Kettering, Ohio where even as poor white people we could always find poorer whites to ridicule, like the ones that lived in Middletucky (Middletown) where JD Vance was hatched and got his poor white boy chip. The story of lead and its impact on humans has not been well understood or explained in society, but to me, its impacts are evident. I have written many words on lead's impact as well as society misreading those signals and blaming minorities and/or crack for that violence. I am so tainted by the Lead story. I laugh when people try to tell a different story. The most current one is the one African Americans tell about the ending of the Crack Epidemic as the entire generation has convinced themselves the problem ended because people saw the devastation in their communities and just made a different decision. The fact is that the crack epidemic ended at the same time in society that violent crime, murder, rapes and unintended pregnancies also began to recede - 1990. Lead was removed from gasoline by the great crime fighter Ronald Reagan in 1986.
The world has gotten so much less violent since 1990 but the media did not tell that story, so much so that I love to ask this question to my right wing contingent.
Were more police officers killed during the 8 years of Ronald Reagan's presidency or during the 8 years of Barack Obama?
About 173 more police officers were killed during Reagan's term.
I have learned a lot from Darrell and CJ, but they wreck their impact by some of their current takes on societal issues. The time period leading up to the so-called Progressive Era has really been misunderstood. Thanks again! PS I use Darrell instead of Daryl because one of my favorite journalists is Dr. Marcy Wheeler and she dismantled his take on the Steele Dossier. He blocked me on Xitter as well. PS Marcy purposefully uses wrong names to throw off the mob, hence Darrell not Darryl.
I had some killer timing and stumbled upon your work. I had just wrapped up episodes 1-5 of nazi Muslims just a week before the attack on Israel. I guess one point I would like to make is this is war and it sucks but I am really having a hard time finding any sympathies with the Arabs in that neck of the woods. I want to refuse to call them Palestinian because there is no historical record of a Palestinian state or people. Sounds brutal I know but it’s my understanding there just isn’t. There were some tribes of Arabs but I really believe they are an invented people. They are people so don’t get me wrong but they are getting what they wanted in Hamas. Did we run constant body counts on the dead Hitler youths and citizenry? You know the answer to that but what is going on right now blows me away. These are the modern day Nazi! They want every Jew to burn basically, it’s in their charter. And the nonsense that it’s not all of them is ridiculous. Where are all these moderates when the bombings and killings are not happening? I’m sorry these people do don’t want to coexist in the slightest. There will never be a two state solution. That’s pie in the sky.
I unfortunately can't fully disagree with that assessment of Hamas. I've said this elsewhere, but I lament what is likely required for this conflict to have an ending that is acceptable in the context of a Jewish state's right to exist, which is total annihilation of Hamas and pretty much anyone who supports it. I don't think what's required to do that is very appealing to anyone when they consider the human cost that goes well-beyond what's already occurred. The postwar investment would need to be on the scale of a sort of mini-Marshall Plan that also includes a massive "de-jihadification" program, similar to that of the "de-Nazification" policies of the late 1940s-1950s. If the economic and living situation of the Gazans can be improved meaningfully and the deradicalization program can be implemented intelligently, then things will improve. But because of Israel's unique position in the world and, as has become obvious, Jews' position in the minds of political radicals who have managed to insert themselves into many institutions where they shouldn't exist (higher ed, government, etc), the success of such a program is likely also pie in the sky. I wish this wasn't the case, but I suspect it is.
I will say that I think history is not a useful lens if trying to solve the I/P conflict. It just devolves into "who was here first". Better to analyze the many actors, their interests, and their objectives (in their own words).
I agree though I think it’s important to have the information in order to demonstrate why historical invocation doesn’t really matter (when it doesn’t of course), if that makes sense. Too often I’ve seen folks try to invoke history when discussing this conflict and they either demonstrate blind spots or they just get things outright wrong.
Interesting point about the Kishinev Pogrom. My own great-grandparents, Jews, fled Eastern Europe for the USA and South Africa +/- one or two years from 1903. But my family oral history has no recollection of the proximate cause.
I have noticed Trump referenced a couple times now and I would just like to point out that none of these protesters if that’s what we are going to call them voted for him. What we are seeing is a huge democrat voter base.
I am sitting with my partner of 13 years and she is remembering the arrival of her paternal grandmother to Ellis Island exactly 100 years ago today. She and her sister joined their Rabbi father just before the closing of the US borders to most immigration. It is interesting to look at our histories to see what choices/happenstance that led us to live under the same roof. Your description of Russian pogroms covers part of her story, while mine was partially captured by JD Vance's ill conceived Hillbilly Elegy. It is my contention that equal opportunity to an excellent education levels most of the playing fields.
While I appreciate the grand history and it certainly helps understand why things are said and done by each side, I would really like the media/historians to look at some of the other potential issues that drove some of the barbarity that bubbles up through history. It's pretty clear to me that some of the worldwide violence that began to rise after WWII can be tied to mass lead poisoning of the populace due to expansive use of leaded gasoline. There are other agents that are purposefully used to drive hatred and separate man from his humanity and seemingly one of these agents are man made drugs derived from ephedrine. Reportedly Hamas was using a similar drug in their training methods just like the Nazis and the Japanese. In addition, Meth in this country leads some people to have absolutely zero humanity for other humans. When the media equates Hamas trained fighters to justify killing Palestinians that live in fear of what I suspect are violent religious junkies it reminds me of the stupid decisions made by the US in the aftermath of 911.
History matters, especially the history of the last 120 years, but that history has to be told that includes all the factors that may lead to violent outcomes. I am not sure we are there yet, but your 3 causes are enlightening.
I could wax on about Darrell Cooper, Mike Brown and George Floyd as these figures tell a story but not the one that gets the story "more correct" Thanks again.
You've highlighted some interesting angles, especially related to the lead poisoning angle (which correct me if I'm wrong has been correlated with the serial killer spread starting in the 1950s or so?) and the use of drugs, as the Nazis and Japanese did. I've really been meaning to read Blitzed for a long time, so maybe I'll get around to that soon, since it deals directly with the Nazis' use of meth.
Also on a side note, I really appreciate the personal angle you've taken because it's illuminating and important; it's funny too because in referencing Vance and Hillbilly Elegy, it makes me appreciate that one side of my family, while as far as I know was never as destitute as Vance's, is from rural Ohio and has always loomed in my imagination in a similar way as the Jewish-German side has. It's something that Americans like you and I (and millions of others) can and should appreciate as unique and even strange.
And finally, I find myself cringing as I think about how much blood will have been spilled before people realize that their cheerleading and apologia is soaked in it. I have a more pro-Israel bias than, say, Darryl does, but I also don't have any way to explain away the deaths of so many thousands of civilians. There is no excuse. But I'm also incapable of supporting the idea of Israel laying down its arms, especially now that their worst fears have been realized. So I see this as, essentially, WWII in micro: total war, started by someone who had no hope of winning, and whose losses will be more catastrophic than they already are. No matter what anyone says, Hamas brought this on themselves and, more importantly, the innocent children they crouch behind, with the shocking violence they committed.
With that said, it's impossible not to appreciate the deeply-felt history that lies behind all of this. I don't think we can underestimate it, even though the living memory of 1881-1948 has long passed us by. Anything that makes someone stop in their tracks and say, "Wait a second..." is the best we can hope for. I hope I helped provide that for at least one person.
Thanks for the considerate response. My partner and I spent the evening wondering what it was like for her grandmother to arrive in America, the story of meeting her partner, moving to the Jersey burbs, having two sons and then going on to teach after earning an advanced degree. One of the sons became a Judge and he and his wife are weirdly buried at Arlington National Cemetery, while my partner's father became a respected radiologist. Opportunity meets education is the story of those that successfully escape oppression. Same story with those that fled farms and fallow fields for the industrial cities of Ohio, where industrialists valued hard work, but also understood the long term value of educating the workforce.
None more so than the person that placed tetra-ethyl lead in gasoline, Charles F. Kettering. I went to K-12 in Kettering, Ohio where even as poor white people we could always find poorer whites to ridicule, like the ones that lived in Middletucky (Middletown) where JD Vance was hatched and got his poor white boy chip. The story of lead and its impact on humans has not been well understood or explained in society, but to me, its impacts are evident. I have written many words on lead's impact as well as society misreading those signals and blaming minorities and/or crack for that violence. I am so tainted by the Lead story. I laugh when people try to tell a different story. The most current one is the one African Americans tell about the ending of the Crack Epidemic as the entire generation has convinced themselves the problem ended because people saw the devastation in their communities and just made a different decision. The fact is that the crack epidemic ended at the same time in society that violent crime, murder, rapes and unintended pregnancies also began to recede - 1990. Lead was removed from gasoline by the great crime fighter Ronald Reagan in 1986.
The world has gotten so much less violent since 1990 but the media did not tell that story, so much so that I love to ask this question to my right wing contingent.
Were more police officers killed during the 8 years of Ronald Reagan's presidency or during the 8 years of Barack Obama?
About 173 more police officers were killed during Reagan's term.
I have learned a lot from Darrell and CJ, but they wreck their impact by some of their current takes on societal issues. The time period leading up to the so-called Progressive Era has really been misunderstood. Thanks again! PS I use Darrell instead of Daryl because one of my favorite journalists is Dr. Marcy Wheeler and she dismantled his take on the Steele Dossier. He blocked me on Xitter as well. PS Marcy purposefully uses wrong names to throw off the mob, hence Darrell not Darryl.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/07/13/the-viral-twitter-thread-in-which-darrell-cooper-confesses-republicans-were-pawns-of-russian-disinformation/
I had some killer timing and stumbled upon your work. I had just wrapped up episodes 1-5 of nazi Muslims just a week before the attack on Israel. I guess one point I would like to make is this is war and it sucks but I am really having a hard time finding any sympathies with the Arabs in that neck of the woods. I want to refuse to call them Palestinian because there is no historical record of a Palestinian state or people. Sounds brutal I know but it’s my understanding there just isn’t. There were some tribes of Arabs but I really believe they are an invented people. They are people so don’t get me wrong but they are getting what they wanted in Hamas. Did we run constant body counts on the dead Hitler youths and citizenry? You know the answer to that but what is going on right now blows me away. These are the modern day Nazi! They want every Jew to burn basically, it’s in their charter. And the nonsense that it’s not all of them is ridiculous. Where are all these moderates when the bombings and killings are not happening? I’m sorry these people do don’t want to coexist in the slightest. There will never be a two state solution. That’s pie in the sky.
I unfortunately can't fully disagree with that assessment of Hamas. I've said this elsewhere, but I lament what is likely required for this conflict to have an ending that is acceptable in the context of a Jewish state's right to exist, which is total annihilation of Hamas and pretty much anyone who supports it. I don't think what's required to do that is very appealing to anyone when they consider the human cost that goes well-beyond what's already occurred. The postwar investment would need to be on the scale of a sort of mini-Marshall Plan that also includes a massive "de-jihadification" program, similar to that of the "de-Nazification" policies of the late 1940s-1950s. If the economic and living situation of the Gazans can be improved meaningfully and the deradicalization program can be implemented intelligently, then things will improve. But because of Israel's unique position in the world and, as has become obvious, Jews' position in the minds of political radicals who have managed to insert themselves into many institutions where they shouldn't exist (higher ed, government, etc), the success of such a program is likely also pie in the sky. I wish this wasn't the case, but I suspect it is.
I will say that I think history is not a useful lens if trying to solve the I/P conflict. It just devolves into "who was here first". Better to analyze the many actors, their interests, and their objectives (in their own words).
I agree though I think it’s important to have the information in order to demonstrate why historical invocation doesn’t really matter (when it doesn’t of course), if that makes sense. Too often I’ve seen folks try to invoke history when discussing this conflict and they either demonstrate blind spots or they just get things outright wrong.
Interesting point about the Kishinev Pogrom. My own great-grandparents, Jews, fled Eastern Europe for the USA and South Africa +/- one or two years from 1903. But my family oral history has no recollection of the proximate cause.